Category Archives: Italian Visas

Message to help new Visa holders

12 Replies

Hi everyone. I think this message will be helpful for those wanting to move here. I know most of my readers won’t care, or won’t need to know, but you might still be interested in the process.

I am primarily writing this to help the new bunch of people trying to come to live here who are seeking/or already have the Digital Nomad Visa. I hope they think of it as information sharing, not negativity. Seems they are not getting the information about the things they need to do to stay in Italy legally. This information is the same for all Visas. And if a person wants a path to staying long term, this information is vital (see last paragraph).

I know Nomads are by definition moving around, but in Italy the nature of the Visa means you’ll need at least a years lease before you come. You need to stay put at your leased address until you’ve gotten through all the paperwork. It is a fact of life here. Some people are fine with that and want to stay long term. If so they need to plan ahead.

There are a number of things to do once you arrive in Italy to live after you receive your Visa.

Step 1. First and foremost is apply for the Permesso di Soggiorno (PdS) which is your permit to stay. The Visa is your ticket in, the PdS is your permit to stay. You must apply for this within 8 days of arrival. Your Visa never needs renewing, but the PdS is an annual or bi-annual renewal. Depends on your region .

To get this permit, you go to the Poste Italiene and pick up the yellow packet for stranieri (foreigners). Fill it in (Google that) buy a €16 tax stamp (bollo) at your local tabaccheria and go back to the Poste with copies of all the documentation you used to get the Visa. You will pay a fee to have this packet processed and a postal fee. Google that for amount. You will receive a receipt for this — DO NOT LOSE IT. You may get an appointment at the Questura then, but probably not. You’ll review it by SMS (you’ll need an Italian number) or mail. This appointment can be a year away.

You must go to the appointment. Bring copies of your documents and the receipt. Also photos. And be prepared to be fingerprinted. Then you wait for notification the card is ready. This can be a few months.

As you can see, things move slowly here.

Step 2. Once you’ve got the PdS then you can become a resident. You’ll do this in the Anagrafe in your Comune. You will get a visit by the police to ascertain you live there.

I am telling you all this so you’ll be informed how to get the Permanent Residency (Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo) after five years here if you want. This is if you plan to live here long term. You will have needed to prepare for this over the previous five years. You will apply just like you do to renew your PdS but you’ll need to check a box for this Permesso. Most important you’ll need to prove you have been paying your income taxes to Italy. You will also need to pass the A2 certification of Italian proficiency. During these five years you cannot have traveled outside of Italy for more that ten months total. There are several other qualifications but they are obtainable when you’re ready to apply. The aforementioned must be done over time.

I hope any new Visa holders, or those pursuing a Visa, find this useful information!

In Boca al Lupo!

Schengen Shuffle

22 Replies
Ligurian coast

I have to admit I spend a good bit of time reading the Facebook groups that are set up for immigrants to Italy — Retired in Italy, Americans Living in Italy, Ultimate Italy, Affordable Italy, etc. I answer a lot of questions. There are a lot of people who want to move here. I think there are a combination of reasons. The Baby Boomers are all retiring right now. People are tired of the strife in US politics, the anger that seems to permeate society now. Prices are high in the U.S.. There are many descendants of the Italian immigrants who migrated to other countries over the last hundred years who are eligible for Italian citizenship.

I actually enjoy helping people with this…most of the time. Thing is, so many people don’t do the slightest bit of research before asking a very basic question. So many young people want to come and that can be very difficult. There are very few Visas for them. For retirees, it is easier. There is a Visa called the Elective Residency Visa. It is for people with enough passive income to qualify, who don’t need to work…i.e., retirees. Or smart young people who made their pile early and can qualify. But no work allowed.

Night view

Some facts about coming to live here. If you are not an EU citizen, you will need a Visa to come. Buying property is easy but it doesn’t confer permission to stay past the normal 90 day tourist visa. After you receive the Visa, you must apply for a Permesso di Soggiorno (permit to stay) within a week of arrival. Then you apply for residency. (Fact – you can’t buy a car unless a resident). Also, one of the biggest hurdles to living in Italy is obtaining your driving license. Test in Italian. Must be taken within a year of residency. Once you become a resident you will be liable to pay Italy taxes on your worldwide income and investments.

It is this last bit that seems to make people balk at moving full-time to Italy. It is a pet peeve of mine that so many people try to find a way to get out of paying taxes here but still want to be able to live here and enjoy all the things that the taxes pay for. Enter the Schengen Shuffle. Americans, Canadians and many other non-EU countries have an automatic 90 day tourist visa to come to any Schengen country — most of Europe is in The Schengen Zone. So a person can come to Italy (for example) and stay 90 days, then they must exit the Schengen zone for 90 days. They can repeat as often as they want. They never become residents. They never pay taxes. They use things taxes pay for, like museums, monuments, parks, historical sites, beaches, schools, universities, libraries, hospitals, public transportation.

Historical site… Paestum Greek temples

To exit the Schengen zone and stay in Europe there are only a few possibilities. The United Kingdom – England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Albania. Turkey. Or you can go back to your home country.

Now, from my personal perspective, the taxes are not all that bad. The tax rates are higher, yes. There is a tax treaty between the U.S. and Italy to protect against double taxation. We pay no tax in the U.S. now. We don’t pay any property taxes on our home here — we used to pay $10K+ a year in the U.S., a big savings. We don’t pay state tax, another ~$8K saved. Now that we have become permanent residents our health care is free in Umbria. [Other regions may vary.] You can apply for the long term residency at the five year mark. The cost to enroll in the system before you become a permanent resident is capped at €2,700 a person annually, but could be less. It is income based. €2K minimum cost. This is cheap by US standards. Cost of living here in Umbria is less than half what people pay in the U.S. and for some of the best, safest and most tasty food anywhere. To me, it is about a wash. Not all that much more in taxes and so worth it to us to live in this beautiful and tranquil country. 🇮🇹

La Dolce Vita 💕

Living here is not perfect by a long shot. There are a lot of hurdles people must leap. The bureaucracy is horrible. One must negotiate everyday life in a foreign language. One must abide by their rules. It is nothing like the U.S. One will get homesick. One will miss things from home. For us, the challenges are part of the draw. It keeps your mind working overtime. All normal, everyday things are now a challenge, or an adventure, depending on how you look at it. We are happy to be living here. Frankly, after ten years here, it is now our home. 🙂

To-do list

Leave a reply

Slowly we get things done on my to-do list. Eye checkups, dental checkups…check. We visited our Commercialista to get our taxes started. This is the other item on the list of things the Questura asked us to get before they will consider giving us the EU Permesso Lungo Periodo. We hope to have this by the first week in June so we can go to the questura before our trip.

I can see ears perking up out there! Yes! we have a Big Trip planned. June 14 to 28. A cruise around Spain and Portugal with a stop in Casablanca with the Windstar line. This time on a yacht called the Star Breeze that holds 300. My sister and her husband are coming too. This will be the first time I have seen my sister in THREE years! The longest we have ever been apart. This trip is the same trip we had planned for July pf 2020. Of course that one never sailed due to the shut down of all cruising because of Covid. We are both super excited. Luther and I have some dear friends coming from Toronto to house and cat sit at our apartment while we are gone. They love our boys and I won’t have to worry about them while we are gone.

Anyway, we have just two weeks and a couple days before we leave. We really want to get the documents requested by the Questura done and turned in before we go. You all know how badly I want this Permisso Illimitato.

Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo – part 3

Leave a reply

So… this week we did several things in pursuit of our Cartas.

Monday we visited the Agencia il Corriere. It is advertised as an auto and boat agency to facilitate all things legal, like titles and registration. It also helps with drivers licenses and we could have probably used them to convert ours had we known about them. We had thought we’d need to go to Perugia for this Police report. But the nice Policeman we visited last week told us about this agency and that they also do things like help get police reports! Who would’ve known that!? So we initiated that process. I’d pay just about anything to avoid going to the madhouse that is Perugia. We should get them next Monday.

Then Luther wrote to our Commercialista to get proof of our having paid our taxes since we’ve been here. That arrived in an email on Wednesday.

Today, we went to the Anagrafe in our Comune to get the CERTIFICATO CONTESTUALE, or family status certification. That was super easy and cost two €16 tax stamps or Marche da Bolla. Plus €1.04.

Since we were there we decided to convert our old style Carta d’Identite to the new electronic cards. This cost €27 each plus photos, fingerprints etc. We should get them in the mail.

So that’s three out of four things we need. The last thing is a Housing Certification or a certificate of habitability. We had thought this “could” be the long pole in the tent as they say. We noticed our deed mentions we do not have this certification. And it says, due to the age of the building. (!) Uh oh. So I decided to write our realtor, who knows just about everything real estate related, and ask him. Well, he replied that this is true, our house is in the Centro Storico, or historical center of town. This part of town is ancient and because of this it gets a pass. I guess we will highlight this passage on our deed and hope they accept it.

Stay tuned!

Here we go again!

Leave a reply

More legal shenanigans! A brand new adventure.

As some of you know, I always document the legal ins and outs of living here. We are just beginning to embark on our new adventure. Since 2014 we have been applying for, and waiting interminably to receive, our annual Permessi di Soggiorno. It is a lot of work and time and also money and not something we enjoy or look forward to doing. Our Permessi expire on the anniversary of the day we arrived in Italy…June 26. So in around February every year we have to gather up all the documents and photos for a new one. We also have to visit the Poste Italiene to pick up the Yellow Packet for Stranieri which is the module we fill out and send in.

This year is different. This year we have been living here for more than 5 years. We are on our 6th Permesso and we were official residents for a total of five years on December 31, 2019. This means we are allowed to apply for Permesso di Soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo (ex carta di soggiorno) – elective residence. This is a PERMANENT permit to stay in Italy. And, as you imagine there are many more forms needed to apply for this as well. We have just begun the process today. I don’t know of what interest this will be to people reading this blog but if any of you are getting close to living here five years here is a list of what you need besides the normal renewal documents.

  • Police Report – Certification from the Clerk of the Court (Tribunale). There are two certifications for each of us. One is whether there is a record of a criminal conviction and the second is a certification there are no pending actions against us for criminal violations. CERTIFICATO GENERALE DEL CASELLARIO GUIDIZIALE and CERTIFICATO DEI CARICHI PENALI PENDENTI. You can download the form from this link. Casellario Giudiziale There is also a fee and you will want to enquire on that and whether you need to bring the ubiquitous Bolleto Valore in 16 Euro denominations. The document tax stamp.
  • Housing certification – We visited the office of our Geometra who did the work on our house for this one. We will need documents proving the property is habitable including electrical, plumbing, heating etc. If you rent your landlord, hopefully will help you obtain this.
  • Family Status Certification – This you get from the Anagrafe, the registry office for your area. That is a CERTIFICATO CONTESTUALE. More Bolleti Valori 16 Euros each plus issuing fee.
  • Italian Tax Payment – You must prove you’ve been paying Italian income tax on your income. We use an Italian tax accountant, Commercista, to do our taxes. We will ask her to write a memo certifying that taxes have been paid for the current and prior years. If you aren’t paying taxes in Italy, you won’t be able to get this Carta. Thankfully we are scrupulous about doing everything by the book here, including paying the onerous taxes.

The above are items to be added to all the normal documents that you include. You fill out and submit the same yellow packet except this time you check “Carta di Soggiorno”.

I will keep you updated as we move through this new process. We will be a test case for all our fellow American Expats living here in Umbria on the Elective Residence Visa. We know no one here who has gotten this permanent permit. It is the law and I know of people elsewhere who have gotten it but lest you forget, the bureaucrats make up the rules arbitrarily. A quote from the person who shared all the above information with me (thanks Larry)….”After six years, we suspect your experience with the bureaucracy is probably like everyone else’s. It is idiosyncratic to use a polite term. Local officials seem to take pleasure in interpreting the stated requirements to their own delight. Following the packet instructions carefully and having everything lined up will get you to your first appointment at the Questura. That’s when you find out what they may additionally want in the way of documentation.”

Just in case, we’ve retained the services of an Avvocato (lawyer). Carlo Rossi. We hope, should we need him he will accompany us to appointments and represent us if we need to contest the decision. We meet him tomorrow.

So, you decided to move to Italy…

Leave a reply

I just put up a page, accessible from the top navigation, with a summary of information about moving and living in Italy. It is called “So you’ve decided to move to Italy”. I will constantly update it with things I learn that I think will be useful. Go to the page here.

Elective Visa

Leave a reply

So, today is a banner day. We visited the Italian Embassy today at our assigned appointment time with all of our documents including proof of purchase of property.

There was a line but it moved pretty quickly. The nicely dressed agent examined all of our documents. The Embassy listed what we needed. BUT he asked for an additional form to prove health insurance. I had copied our information and had brought the book with all of our documents and copies with me so lucky for us we had that information too.

TA DA! we have been approved for our 1 year Elective Visa. We go to pick it up next week. I am pretty psyched!

Here is the receipt for my visa!

visa receipt

Virginia house sold! Only 30 days to leave!!!

Leave a reply

The good news is the house sold. The bad news is that there is less than 30 days to closing! OH NO!! So much to do, so little time. I hit the ground running this morning and rented a storage unit for the things we are keeping here and arranged for the shipping containers to be delivered to the house for packing and sending over. UPakWeShip is the name of the company. I got them from a blogger who is based in Venice. They are very responsive so far. They do door to door shipping. It is just 100 square feet so not all that much can go. I am gathering it up and trying to prioritize what is most important.

I also made plane reservations to depart from here June 24 for us and the two cats. That is a few days after closing on June 18. That will allow us to do some banking things and final issues. Next I have to do the buy back Renault car deal for a 3 month rental. It is the most economical way to go until we have our residency and can buy a car.

Tomorrow we go to the Italian Embassy with our papers. Cross your fingers for us. We DO need that Visa!

Good news!

Leave a reply

Today we got an email from our real estate agent in Umbertide. It seems he had an idea that could work for us to get the registered sale papers earlier. He checked with the notary and he agreed it could be done.

We can do the final contract any time we like now and the property title will be transferred to our names. All that is needed is for a clause to be inserted stating that “possession” of the property will pass to us on May 31 by which time Elisabetta will have vacated the property. Evidently Elizabetta is agreeable to this. This will allow us to get the “registered” sale papers and complete our visa process at least a month earlier! This will make a tremendous difference for our logistics.

So today I spent time cashing out stocks and gathering enough money to finish buying the house. Just as soon as I can get it into our bank I will arrange to have it wired to our Italian bank. Then the sale can close.