Category Archives: UE Permesso di soggiorno permanente

Trip to the Questura

After the last couple days of confusion, I’ve decided to leave all the travel news alone for awhile. I’m sure everyone is capable of doing their own investigating.
~~~~~~~~
You all may recall, about a month ago we went to submit all the myriad documents we had gathered to apply for the Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo (ex carta di soggiorno) – elective residence. Link to the post.

Today was our appointment at the Questura. I was prepared to be turned down. I even had rehearsed what I would say if they did. I have been through so many hoops here that I wasn’t nervous or worried at all. I actually like our Questura. I’ve only ever used the one in Citta di Castello. It’s a medium sized city north of us. I’ve heard all kinds of horror stories of the Questure in the larger cities. They sound like Dante’s third ring of hell. Our police officers all are friendly and, after seven years they know us well. And there is seldom a crowd.

We were each called in to a window. We had all our receipts, documents, passports, old Permessi, and our photos. They said, you’re applying for the permesso lungo periodo? We said yes. Two of our documents had expired since we’d gotten them last year before Covid. So we weren’t getting the permit. They said they would give us another year of our Permesso and while waiting we can re-apply for the long term one. Even though we failed this time, the good news is, we CAN get this permit. We will not be turned down if we get the new documents. I’m pretty pumped about this. If we get it, then we won’t have to worry about having an expired Permesso and not being able to travel. And we will be able get our health coverage for the ENTIRE year instead of having to go back again and again to extend. It will be amazing…I shouldn’t get too sure though, it is, after all, Italy. Anything can happen. 😳
~~~~~~~
The weather has turned nice. It’s finally warming up. We’ve had a very cold spring. I bought my pepper plants yesterday for this year. I am still missing some flowers but I will find them eventually.

This week we have a few excursions planned. We plan to visit a new (to us) Asian market tomorrow. We are very low on our Asian ingredients. As most of you know, we love ethnic foods which are a rare thing in Italy. So I cook meals myself. Since being locked down we couldn’t leave our Comune so we couldn’t shop in Perugia where there are a couple of stores.

Then on Saturday or Sunday we plan to meet friends for lunch in Montefalco at one of our all time favorite restaurants, L’Alchemista. It’s been a couple of years since we’ve been.

We are also just starting the beginnings of plans for a few short trips here and there. A day trip to Rome to see the Torlonia Marbles. They are amazing. Here is a great link from BBC about the Marbles. And probably in June a trip for our anniversary to Via Reggio on the Mediterranean. Got our eye on a nice hotel and restaurant.

Stay tuned!
~~~~~~~
Italian phrase for today…”La speranza non muore mai” literally “hope never dies” but equivalent to our saying “hope springs eternal”. Pronounced — Lah spare-an-zah non moo-or-ee my.

Stay safe…🌈

Long term Permesso

Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo (ex carta di soggiorno) – elective residence

Today, we applied for this long coveted permit. The Polizia di Stato website states after five years continuous residence a person can apply for this permit, which is permanent (!). Like gold to me. But living in this backward region of Umbria we shall see what sort of road blocks are thrown up in front of us.

It took a long time for me to even find people who had gotten this permit so I could glean their information. It seems, either people don’t stay here more than five years, or they can’t comply in some other way, so they just continue to apply for their Permesso di Soggiorno every year or two.

Last year I finally found a few people who had managed to get this. I gathered much very useful information. I combined all the info I got into a big list to include the requirements of the Polizia site. It took a while to gather all of the needed documents and we even did overkill with a few things. The last and most difficult thing was the Certificato di Agibilità. We enlisted the help of our Geometra and got this document just this week. We are a little late applying. But…we went to the Post this morning with our pile of documents…

It was a pretty normal experience since the Poste just takes your documents and fees (Cost more €130,46) and gives you an appointment with the Questura. In the past this could take many months…but strangely ours is May 18, just 18 days away. So in 18 days we go to the Umbria Citta di Castello Questura..notorious for not giving anything more than a one year permit…this is a brand new experience. Let’s see what happens!
~~~~~~~
As I mentioned, we had our vaccines on Tuesday. I was wondering if we would have any side affects. All was well all day on Wednesday. But on Thursday I got hit with the major fatigue which is a possible side affect. I could not, for the life of me, keep my eyes open. All afternoon it was happening. I went for a nap, couldn’t sleep, so I got up but I couldn’t stay awake. I didn’t associate it with the vaccine until it hit me again after dinner. I went to bed early and am much better today. I’ve never had anything remotely like that in my life. Very strange.
~~~~~~~~~~
Today was a pretty day. Around 75 F. Not all that sunny but still nice. We had a beer at Bar Mary after our trip to the Poste. And then we went back in the evening for a spritz with two new friends who’ve moved here from South Africa. The piazza was abuzz, just like old times. So nice. Here’s Luther!

Take care all! 🌈

Vaccine appointments

Yesterday we got the call from our medico di base. She has vaccines and we have an appointment on Tuesday to get our shots. We are happy. It is good news. If we get AstraZenica, as we assume we will, we will get the second shot in July sometime. They say the efficacy is a lot higher if you wait.

On Monday we go to Zona Gialla. Zone Yellow. This is the BEST news. We will be able to travel to places in our region and even to adjacent regions that are Yellow. So we could go to Tuscany, Emilia Romagna, Le Marche, Abruzzo, and Lazio. 😁 💕 What freedom. The ristorante and the Bars are also opening for sit down outside drinks and meals. How exciting for them. It’s been very hard on these businesses. I was out yesterday, and the chef at San Giorgio, the restaurant across the Piazza from us, was outside cleaning his tables in anticipation. I was excited for them and asked if they’d be open next week. And yes! They will be, for Pranzo. It is the best place in town. It warms my heart to see Cafe Centrale out spiffing up the outside space, and Bar Mary too. It will feel like the old Umbertide again 💕. Spritzes on the Piazza…wow.

Beautiful weather today. Just perfect. Pastel blue sky, bright green wheat, the trees with varying blushes of tiny spring leaves. The birds flitting about. I saw our resident Hoopoe or Upupa on our terrace today. Big beautiful bird.

Dinner last night was from the little group who do “takeaway Thursday”. They offer two menus. One, more traditional Italian or continental. The other, more exotic. This week we got one of each. Luther got the French one. I got the Thai one. Very yummy. I walk across the bridge over the Tiber to pick-up at 6pm. Half of Umbertide seems to be over there getting dinner! Here is a picture of my dolce. Peanut butter cups with spicy bits on top…to be honest, I ordered my meal just to get these. 😁 There were three…

Next chore is to put together our packet for the Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo (ex carta di soggiorno) – elective residence. We finally have gotten everything we need to apply. And it is quite the list, let me tell you. I will be working on this today and tomorrow and I hope to have it all ready to submit on Monday.
~~~~~~~
Italiano phrase for today. “ho pranzato, ora è tempo di fare un pisolino” In English “I had lunch, now it is time for a nap”. Pronounced….oh pranz-ahto, or-ah aa tem-po dee fah-ray une peese-oh-lean-oh. Pisolino is a favorite word…a nap!
~~~~~~~
Stay safe everyone. Un buon fine settimana! 🌈

Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo – part 3

So… this week we did several things in pursuit of our Cartas.

Monday we visited the Agencia il Corriere. It is advertised as an auto and boat agency to facilitate all things legal, like titles and registration. It also helps with drivers licenses and we could have probably used them to convert ours had we known about them. We had thought we’d need to go to Perugia for this Police report. But the nice Policeman we visited last week told us about this agency and that they also do things like help get police reports! Who would’ve known that!? So we initiated that process. I’d pay just about anything to avoid going to the madhouse that is Perugia. We should get them next Monday.

Then Luther wrote to our Commercialista to get proof of our having paid our taxes since we’ve been here. That arrived in an email on Wednesday.

Today, we went to the Anagrafe in our Comune to get the CERTIFICATO CONTESTUALE, or family status certification. That was super easy and cost two €16 tax stamps or Marche da Bolla. Plus €1.04.

Since we were there we decided to convert our old style Carta d’Identite to the new electronic cards. This cost €27 each plus photos, fingerprints etc. We should get them in the mail.

So that’s three out of four things we need. The last thing is a Housing Certification or a certificate of habitability. We had thought this “could” be the long pole in the tent as they say. We noticed our deed mentions we do not have this certification. And it says, due to the age of the building. (!) Uh oh. So I decided to write our realtor, who knows just about everything real estate related, and ask him. Well, he replied that this is true, our house is in the Centro Storico, or historical center of town. This part of town is ancient and because of this it gets a pass. I guess we will highlight this passage on our deed and hope they accept it.

Stay tuned!

Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo – part 2

So yesterday we went to the polizia here in Umbertide to enquire about how to get the certificates we need. Sadly we have to go to Perugia. We have vague directions. Sigh.

Then we met with our avvocato. Sr. Rossi seems nice and speaks good English which helps some. He explained we should just apply on our own as normal and if we are turned down we will file in the Administrative Court Of Umbria (TAR UMBRIA) to contest the decision. It will cost around €1500 plus court costs and take around 1 1/2 years or so. Sigh.

On the bright side we managed to get our health care renewed. Always problematic as we must wait for the US Embassy to send our stamped social security statements before we can pay the fee to renew. All done. And we chose a new doctor. Dottoressa Lorenza Medici. Good name!
~~~~~~
To catch up with a few things from the last week or two…

Lunch at Calagrana with a bunch of friends. Picture of little Pelegrino, a twin whose mother rejected him. He is being bottle fed and is cute as can be.

And today is February 1! We got past the long cold month of January. Look what I saw on my trip to the grocery store!

Here we go again!

More legal shenanigans! A brand new adventure.

As some of you know, I always document the legal ins and outs of living here. We are just beginning to embark on our new adventure. Since 2014 we have been applying for, and waiting interminably to receive, our annual Permessi di Soggiorno. It is a lot of work and time and also money and not something we enjoy or look forward to doing. Our Permessi expire on the anniversary of the day we arrived in Italy…June 26. So in around February every year we have to gather up all the documents and photos for a new one. We also have to visit the Poste Italiene to pick up the Yellow Packet for Stranieri which is the module we fill out and send in.

This year is different. This year we have been living here for more than 5 years. We are on our 6th Permesso and we were official residents for a total of five years on December 31, 2019. This means we are allowed to apply for Permesso di Soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo (ex carta di soggiorno) – elective residence. This is a PERMANENT permit to stay in Italy. And, as you imagine there are many more forms needed to apply for this as well. We have just begun the process today. I don’t know of what interest this will be to people reading this blog but if any of you are getting close to living here five years here is a list of what you need besides the normal renewal documents.

  • Police Report – Certification from the Clerk of the Court (Tribunale). There are two certifications for each of us. One is whether there is a record of a criminal conviction and the second is a certification there are no pending actions against us for criminal violations. CERTIFICATO GENERALE DEL CASELLARIO GUIDIZIALE and CERTIFICATO DEI CARICHI PENALI PENDENTI. You can download the form from this link. Casellario Giudiziale There is also a fee and you will want to enquire on that and whether you need to bring the ubiquitous Bolleto Valore in 16 Euro denominations. The document tax stamp.
  • Housing certification – We visited the office of our Geometra who did the work on our house for this one. We will need documents proving the property is habitable including electrical, plumbing, heating etc. If you rent your landlord, hopefully will help you obtain this.
  • Family Status Certification – This you get from the Anagrafe, the registry office for your area. That is a CERTIFICATO CONTESTUALE. More Bolleti Valori 16 Euros each plus issuing fee.
  • Italian Tax Payment – You must prove you’ve been paying Italian income tax on your income. We use an Italian tax accountant, Commercista, to do our taxes. We will ask her to write a memo certifying that taxes have been paid for the current and prior years. If you aren’t paying taxes in Italy, you won’t be able to get this Carta. Thankfully we are scrupulous about doing everything by the book here, including paying the onerous taxes.

The above are items to be added to all the normal documents that you include. You fill out and submit the same yellow packet except this time you check “Carta di Soggiorno”.

I will keep you updated as we move through this new process. We will be a test case for all our fellow American Expats living here in Umbria on the Elective Residence Visa. We know no one here who has gotten this permanent permit. It is the law and I know of people elsewhere who have gotten it but lest you forget, the bureaucrats make up the rules arbitrarily. A quote from the person who shared all the above information with me (thanks Larry)….”After six years, we suspect your experience with the bureaucracy is probably like everyone else’s. It is idiosyncratic to use a polite term. Local officials seem to take pleasure in interpreting the stated requirements to their own delight. Following the packet instructions carefully and having everything lined up will get you to your first appointment at the Questura. That’s when you find out what they may additionally want in the way of documentation.”

Just in case, we’ve retained the services of an Avvocato (lawyer). Carlo Rossi. We hope, should we need him he will accompany us to appointments and represent us if we need to contest the decision. We meet him tomorrow.