Category Archives: Permesso di Soggiorno

Message to help new Visa holders

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Hi everyone. I think this message will be helpful for those wanting to move here. I know most of my readers won’t care, or won’t need to know, but you might still be interested in the process.

I am primarily writing this to help the new bunch of people trying to come to live here who are seeking/or already have the Digital Nomad Visa. I hope they think of it as information sharing, not negativity. Seems they are not getting the information about the things they need to do to stay in Italy legally. This information is the same for all Visas. And if a person wants a path to staying long term, this information is vital (see last paragraph).

I know Nomads are by definition moving around, but in Italy the nature of the Visa means you’ll need at least a years lease before you come. You need to stay put at your leased address until you’ve gotten through all the paperwork. It is a fact of life here. Some people are fine with that and want to stay long term. If so they need to plan ahead.

There are a number of things to do once you arrive in Italy to live after you receive your Visa.

Step 1. First and foremost is apply for the Permesso di Soggiorno (PdS) which is your permit to stay. The Visa is your ticket in, the PdS is your permit to stay. You must apply for this within 8 days of arrival. Your Visa never needs renewing, but the PdS is an annual or bi-annual renewal. Depends on your region .

To get this permit, you go to the Poste Italiene and pick up the yellow packet for stranieri (foreigners). Fill it in (Google that) buy a €16 tax stamp (bollo) at your local tabaccheria and go back to the Poste with copies of all the documentation you used to get the Visa. You will pay a fee to have this packet processed and a postal fee. Google that for amount. You will receive a receipt for this — DO NOT LOSE IT. You may get an appointment at the Questura then, but probably not. You’ll review it by SMS (you’ll need an Italian number) or mail. This appointment can be a year away.

You must go to the appointment. Bring copies of your documents and the receipt. Also photos. And be prepared to be fingerprinted. Then you wait for notification the card is ready. This can be a few months.

As you can see, things move slowly here.

Step 2. Once you’ve got the PdS then you can become a resident. You’ll do this in the Anagrafe in your Comune. You will get a visit by the police to ascertain you live there.

I am telling you all this so you’ll be informed how to get the Permanent Residency (Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo) after five years here if you want. This is if you plan to live here long term. You will have needed to prepare for this over the previous five years. You will apply just like you do to renew your PdS but you’ll need to check a box for this Permesso. Most important you’ll need to prove you have been paying your income taxes to Italy. You will also need to pass the A2 certification of Italian proficiency. During these five years you cannot have traveled outside of Italy for more that ten months total. There are several other qualifications but they are obtainable when you’re ready to apply. The aforementioned must be done over time.

I hope any new Visa holders, or those pursuing a Visa, find this useful information!

In Boca al Lupo!

Soggiornante di Lungo Periodo UE

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Well, folks, it finally happened. The loooong saga of obtaining our long term Permit to Stay, good for more than a year is at an end. If you’ve been reading this a while you’ll know how long we have been working towards getting this Permesso. This one is good for ten years. I’ll probably be dead by then.

A person is allowed to apply for this after five years of residency. We have been here almost nine years. The reason we are late in getting this was mainly due to Covid. We applied three years ago but we didn’t have all our paperwork. Then we applied again in March 2022. We were told we needed additional documents which we provided to them in July 2022. So today, ten months later we finally got the cards. We, of course we’re not sure it WOULD actually be a long term card. When Luther looked at the date (he got his card before me) he told me it expired 2032. I was stupidly happy.

It is finally the end of the annual rigamarol of renewing, paying, getting to see the Questura for fingerprints and then waiting months for the cards. Meanwhile our old cards were expired meaning we always had to worry about traveling on them. As of today we are finished with this. Such a relief. I wanted all my friends here to know the end of the story.

To-do list

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Slowly we get things done on my to-do list. Eye checkups, dental checkups…check. We visited our Commercialista to get our taxes started. This is the other item on the list of things the Questura asked us to get before they will consider giving us the EU Permesso Lungo Periodo. We hope to have this by the first week in June so we can go to the questura before our trip.

I can see ears perking up out there! Yes! we have a Big Trip planned. June 14 to 28. A cruise around Spain and Portugal with a stop in Casablanca with the Windstar line. This time on a yacht called the Star Breeze that holds 300. My sister and her husband are coming too. This will be the first time I have seen my sister in THREE years! The longest we have ever been apart. This trip is the same trip we had planned for July pf 2020. Of course that one never sailed due to the shut down of all cruising because of Covid. We are both super excited. Luther and I have some dear friends coming from Toronto to house and cat sit at our apartment while we are gone. They love our boys and I won’t have to worry about them while we are gone.

Anyway, we have just two weeks and a couple days before we leave. We really want to get the documents requested by the Questura done and turned in before we go. You all know how badly I want this Permisso Illimitato.

Digital Nomad visa

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One of the things I see most discussed among people who aspire to move to Italy, is Visas. I showcase the different types in my page So You’ve Decided to Move to Italy. The latest news is about Italy’s recent adoption of the Digital Nomad Visa. The final requirements aren’t ironed out but this is my updated write-up of what’s known now.

Digital Nomad: (DNV) At the end of March 2022 Italy passed a bill allowing Digital Nomad visas. This is for highly skilled professionals who will work in Italy for themselves or remotely for a non-Italian company.  The Visa will be good for one year with the possibility of extending for one more. As of this writing the requirements have not been firmed up. What I read though, is that the individual consulates will have major discretionary powers, as to whether they issue or don’t issue a DNV. The applications will need to be completely bulletproof like those for the Elective Residency Visa. It may require the official recognition of one’s professional qualifications. An applicant may need to show an advanced degree, proof of operating in the field (probably for several years) for which they want to apply for the DNV, a tax return from their home country, and health insurance. It has already been announced that they will need to be completely tax compliant in Italy, so applicants are advised they should consult a tax expert in Italy, if they want to apply for this visa.

I will update this as I learn more. It seems many people think they can move anywhere with no real limitations. But people should ask themselves, would the US let just anyone in with no limitations or requirements? I think not. And it works the same for all countries. You need to get the proper permissions.

Even after nearly eight years here we also have to continue our responsibility to update/renew our permissions to continue living here. As some of you know, we are working to get our permanent residence permit. We have two new, required documents to obtain that the Questura has asked for. The first one is the Certificato d’abilita’. We had already gotten our apartment assessed by our Geometra last year. We mistakenly thought this was what was needed for the long term permit, but it was not. Turns out the steps to get the certificato were many. First we had to buy a Marca da bollo at the Tabaccharia for €16.00. Then we had to make an appointment at the bank in the Piazza (not our bank) and pay a fee at the teller. Then the form had to be returned to the Comune this time to the Protocol office. They told us we had to get ANOTHER Marca da Bollo, then return to the very first guy who would issue the certificato. I am happy to say, last Friday, we got it! Who says things are hard to get done in Italy! 😁

We are now halfway there! We must wait until June so we can file our taxes for this year. Then we can provide the requested tax form. I sure hope after all this we get the cards! Piano, piano…

As a reward we treated ourselves to the seasons first Spritz!

Long term Permesso – the saga continues

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In Italy, there is a word they use often, ”Lo stress”. Yes, it means exactly what it sounds like – The Stress. Today, we are dealing with lo stress of dealing with the Italian bureaucracy once again.

If you’ve been reading this journal for a while you know of what I speak. For those who don’t know — a short recap. When you move to Italy, after you get your Visa, the first thing you need to do is apply for your Permesso di Soggiorno (Permit to Stay – PdS). It should be done within eight days of your arrival. I won’t go into details of how you get one but suffice it to say it takes time, several appointments, and money. In Umbria, one must apply to renew it every year before it expires. The process can take a year and then you begin again. The light at the end of the tunnel is the possibility, after five years continual residence, of getting the Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo (ex carta di soggiorno) – elective residence. This is a permanent long term permit to stay. Need I say this is a coveted thing?

We will have lived here eight years in June. We are past due for this card. Covid interfered with us pursuing this. We tried last year but two documents were expired. So this year, we try again. Today was our appointment at the Questura. We expected to find out if we would be getting the Card. I bet, no matter how thorough you try to be when you apply, they will find something that you missed. Today, we found out the two things that we are missing.

One item is a document from our Comune which attests to the fact that our house meets the standards for two people to live here. We had our Geometra do the assessment and we included this in the packet, apparently, they need this other form. We visited the Ufficio Technico where we found out what to bring to get this document. Fifteen minutes later we returned with said papers and the office was locked. We checked the hours. They were supposed to be open. Sigh. Happens all the time. We will try again tomorrow. Comically, I can look right into this office from my Living Room window!

The second item is a 2022 tax form certifying our income from 2021. We contacted our commercialista – she said the form does not exist until June. And that the 2021 form is in force. Sigh. I think we should just take the email we got and the form for last year back to the Questura. Luther says he will call them.

To be honest, I think this is not too bad. It looks like we will, eventually, have these two items. The only issue is when…and whether, in the meantime, those two time sensitive forms will expire — again. It is always something!
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Let’s talk about something more fun. I am a notoriously poor baker. But I threw caution to the wind and decided to make a quiche for dinner last night. First hurdle was making the crust. I tried a recipe I had and miracle of miracles, it came out perfect! Then I used another recipe for quiche I but substituted the vegetables, using some things I got at the market yesterday. I used leeks, mushrooms and broccoli rabe. It called for cheddar cheese but that’s very hard to come by around here. So I used the cheese most common here, pecorino fresca. I added an extra egg and a little more cream because the eggs here are not graded by size. No such thing as extra large eggs. These were fresh eggs from local chickens. Anyway, the quiche came out perfect and it tasted great. I served it with a green salad…a perfect dinner.

Upcoming trip, Permesso di soggiorno lungo periodo

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We are having beautiful weather. Yesterday, Luther and I went for a walk. It was the first day of warmish weather after a long cold spell. It seemed like everyone in town was out for the evening passeggiata. We chose the river walk. The Tiber river and Umbertide, behind its walls.

Today, we finally turned in our paperwork for the Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo – elective residence…second try. We will see if we’re missing anything this time. Last time 2 of our documents were expired. Our Questura appointments are April 14. Once, in the past this first appointment was six months out. That meant it took almost a year to get our new Permessi from application to receiving the card. By then we had to start the renewal process for the next one! We are glad that was a one time thing. We have no idea why. 75 pages of documentation…And €176 each in stamps and fees…EACH.

UPCOMING TRIP REPORT!!
Tomorrow we are going on our first trip since last summer. Long time. Short time and distance. We will take the train to Milano for three nights and explore the city.

Ciao for now!

This & that

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A little catching up is in order I think. We have been working once again to get our long term permissions to stay (Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo (ex carta di soggiorno)). Much paper to gather. You may remember we tried for it last year. Two of our documents were time sensitive (we didn’t realize) and had expired. So my new hobby is copying all our myriad cards, IDs, passports, tax returns, financial statements, house certifications, and compliance with the language proficiency certification and other requirements to live here. Whew! I think I am almost there. We are still waiting for our police reports, and the Certificato Contestuale. When I’m done killing trees I will take a photo.

The month of February is more than half gone. It is that time of year when the temperatures are all over the place, but more warm than cold now. Today it was mid 60s but cloudy. We are having sunlight until six PM now which is nice. I have been walking so I notice the buds on the trees.

Along the city walls next to the river. We have a brand new fence. The fishers where out this morning in force.

After my walk I stopped to shop in the local Saturday market. I got a big bunch of rapini, called broccoli rabe in english. I will post on Monday the way I love to have it with pasta. Super good and super easy. But meanwhile I’m have a salad tonight among other things, look at this. So pretty! Like a flower. Salad-to-be. It is much like radicchio.

Tomorrow we celebrate a friend’s birthday at Calagrana. I will try to post pictures. Buona domenica everyone!

Green Pass

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This has been a very productive week so far. The first good thing was we both managed to download our Green Passes onto our IPhones and now we should be able to show them if needed to prove we have both been vaccinated. Here is what it looks like. I blurred the QR code and personal information.

Among other things, we also managed to pick up our new Permessi di Soggiorno. As I posted earlier, it was the fastest we have ever gotten them and mine is actually good for eleven months! Amazing.

The other things I mentioned…We got our Italian taxes filed. We visited the Poste Italiene to pay a bill for a friend. Yesterday we got our hairs cut. Did you ever notice only English uses the word “hair” for plural. The word hair can mean a single hair, or all your hair. Not so in Italian, French and German. Those are the only other languages I know. So I’ve taken to saying, I am going to get my hairs cut. 😁

A special thing you can get only at this time of year is friggatelli (pronounced frig with a soft G like George) Little green peppers. They are prepared by frying in olive oil for a couple of minutes then adding minced garlic for a few seconds. Then you add a bit of water and close the pan to let the peppers steam for about ten minutes. You can eat the whole thing to include the seeds. A nice side dish with steak or chicken. I love them and eat them a lot while they are in season..

I’m not sure anyone wants to know the end of the pigeon story. But quickly I will say it wasn’t a happy ending and actually at this time, a full week and a half after the window got shut, there remain live pigeons inside. They will die eventually. I wish it would be soon. A man did come with the cherry picker truck on Monday and opened the window and retrieved 3 dead pigeons from near the window. The live pigeons, naturally wouldn’t try to fly out while he was in the window. So he closed it back up and left. I am glad that window is nailed shut now and I don’t have to go through this again. And neither do the pigeons. There are plenty pigeons left and they will find other nesting places.
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Tonight I made a seared steak that was marinated in mango purée with habanero pepper and lime juice. I made a salsa of seared tomatoes, jalapeños, garlic and cilantro. I served with corn tortillas and sliced avocado. Most of the more “exotic” ingredients (mango, cilantro, avocado) I got from the “Egyptian” fruttivendolo. Truth be told only the cilantro must be bought there. The regular Coop carries avocado and mango. But almost nobody carries coriandolo…cilantro. I also think his avocado is way better than any other source. Every now and then I must break away from Italian food…I love it..but my taste buds need a boost now and then! 😎

ciao for now!

Trip to the Questura

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After the last couple days of confusion, I’ve decided to leave all the travel news alone for awhile. I’m sure everyone is capable of doing their own investigating.
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You all may recall, about a month ago we went to submit all the myriad documents we had gathered to apply for the Permesso di soggiorno UE per soggiornanti di lungo periodo (ex carta di soggiorno) – elective residence. Link to the post.

Today was our appointment at the Questura. I was prepared to be turned down. I even had rehearsed what I would say if they did. I have been through so many hoops here that I wasn’t nervous or worried at all. I actually like our Questura. I’ve only ever used the one in Citta di Castello. It’s a medium sized city north of us. I’ve heard all kinds of horror stories of the Questure in the larger cities. They sound like Dante’s third ring of hell. Our police officers all are friendly and, after seven years they know us well. And there is seldom a crowd.

We were each called in to a window. We had all our receipts, documents, passports, old Permessi, and our photos. They said, you’re applying for the permesso lungo periodo? We said yes. Two of our documents had expired since we’d gotten them last year before Covid. So we weren’t getting the permit. They said they would give us another year of our Permesso and while waiting we can re-apply for the long term one. Even though we failed this time, the good news is, we CAN get this permit. We will not be turned down if we get the new documents. I’m pretty pumped about this. If we get it, then we won’t have to worry about having an expired Permesso and not being able to travel. And we will be able get our health coverage for the ENTIRE year instead of having to go back again and again to extend. It will be amazing…I shouldn’t get too sure though, it is, after all, Italy. Anything can happen. 😳
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The weather has turned nice. It’s finally warming up. We’ve had a very cold spring. I bought my pepper plants yesterday for this year. I am still missing some flowers but I will find them eventually.

This week we have a few excursions planned. We plan to visit a new (to us) Asian market tomorrow. We are very low on our Asian ingredients. As most of you know, we love ethnic foods which are a rare thing in Italy. So I cook meals myself. Since being locked down we couldn’t leave our Comune so we couldn’t shop in Perugia where there are a couple of stores.

Then on Saturday or Sunday we plan to meet friends for lunch in Montefalco at one of our all time favorite restaurants, L’Alchemista. It’s been a couple of years since we’ve been.

We are also just starting the beginnings of plans for a few short trips here and there. A day trip to Rome to see the Torlonia Marbles. They are amazing. Here is a great link from BBC about the Marbles. And probably in June a trip for our anniversary to Via Reggio on the Mediterranean. Got our eye on a nice hotel and restaurant.

Stay tuned!
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Italian phrase for today…”La speranza non muore mai” literally “hope never dies” but equivalent to our saying “hope springs eternal”. Pronounced — Lah spare-an-zah non moo-or-ee my.

Stay safe…🌈

First time out of the Comune in months!

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Today, we ventured out of our Comune. First time since January. I was sure to fill out the required autocertificazione. We had all our identification. Our reason for leaving was to go to Città di Castello to the Questura and try to retrieve our Permessi di Soggiorno. You may recall, we had appointments in February so we knew the cards were there. But at that time the Questura was closed for a Covid outbreak. Once you’ve missed your appointment they won’t send another message with a new time. So you go and wait.

When we arrived, there looked to be around three groups of people waiting outside the door and inside two sets of people at the two windows. We waited until our turn and by then there were another five people or families. One of the women tried to push ahead of us when our turn came but we elbowed her out of the way. Latezia, a police woman who has been there since our very first Permessi seven years ago greeted us. I can’t believe it’s our seventh Permesso. There was a problem with her computer so we swapped windows and got our finger prints taken. This is the first time I had no issues with my prints. Normally they have a very hard time. I think maybe their machine is new. At least it worked and we walked out with our new Permessi…which expire in 4 months. Sigh. Next month we apply for new ones. This time we will try for the Long Term Permit. I am waiting for one more document and we should have everything we need.
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On the Covid front the rumors are flying. First they said we would register on-line or in the pharmacy. Now they say our doctor will call us to come in for the dose. There was an article today in Umbria24 that was pretty good. But I won’t hold my breath that it all will happen. I reached out to our doctor and she will be calling us she said. Here is an abbreviated version of the article, translated from the Italian so it’s a little stilted.

“Vaccinations for seventy-year-olds will begin within the first week of April and they will not have to book an appointment to receive the drug, but will be summoned directly. And by the end of the month, about 60,000 doses of the vaccine will arrive in Umbria…”

There are “three categories for the over 70 range: the first is that of non-ambulatory people who will be vaccinated at home and with Moderna; the second is that of the vulnerable who will receive Pfizer; and the third will collect the seventy-year-olds in perfect health for whom AstraZeneca is intended and who will be administered in vaccination centers…. to proceed with the administration to the 80,000 Umbrians aged between 70 and 79…”

“The start of vaccination for seventy-year-olds within a couple of weeks will obviously go hand in hand with the delivery of vaccines, which for Umbria in the space of a week should be worth about 60 thousand doses. In fact, 5,800 doses of Moderna arrived on Monday, while 2,000 doses of AstraZeneca and above all 11,700 of Pfizer are on the way. The Region also explains that by the end of the month, probably around 29 March, another 18,200 doses of AstraZeneca, 8,400 of Moderna, 18,720 of Pfizer will arrive.

So, I guess this is all good news…cautiously optimistic.
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Manuele Martinelli posted this photo of our sweet town as seen from above.

Italiano sentence. “La primavera è arrivata e il clima più caldo sta arrivando.” In English – “Spring has arrived and warmer weather is coming.” Pronounced…lah pree-mah-vara eh are-ree-vah-tah eh eel clee-mah pew call-doh stah are-ree-van-doh.
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Stay safe everyone! 🌈